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I recently blogged about my utterly disgusting American Airlines First Class lunch. On my return flights home, I had the “pleasure” of meeting both Kevin and Karen on my fights.
The above image is clearly not my bag.
I have learned that, unlike Delta and their CRJ900s, my bag that I know does fit in the overhead space on these birds will never EVER be allowed onboard by AA gate agents both at home in South Bend as well as their fortress hubs. Pink tags are FIRMLY enforced – period!
Anyway, with that in mind, I only travel AA with my backpack and then check bags. This also has the added perk of freeing up my foot space for – you guessed it – my feet vs. the need to put my bag over head and my backpack under the seat in front of me.
Well, on the leg from Charlotte to South Bend, the very nice flight attendant told Kevin he would have to place his bag in the overhead as he was in the bulkhead seat. No problem for Kevin — as he simply slid it under his seat onto my feet.
It seemed like a nice soft leather bag and I almost felt guilty bumping it with my feet (not like Kevin even asked if he could take my foot space during the flight)!
On to the flight before this one, my flight from Montego Bay, Jamaica. I know most AVgeeks like the window seat and I totally respect that and many times also pick the window for amazing shots of wherever we are going as the view is one of a kind.
But I also know the “rules” when I choose the aisle. I know if the window person wants to get up, it’s fairly a simple: I clear the way of my laptop, drinks or anything else that could possibly impede the way of the person next to me – this is simple respect – right?
Well, not for this Karen!
Take a good look at the photo above. Karen has not one but TWO bags at her feet and when I say at her feet I mean completely blocking the path. Oh, and a laptop, drink, booze bottle AND a soda can at her seat.
When the gentleman wanted out, NOTHING moved.
Well, when I say nothing the man had to do a giant straddle and Karen seemed most annoyed that he brushed her laptop and it moved back towards her a few inches!
I am NOT kidding, folks!
And we are talking American Airlines A321s here — that does not have much first class space to begin with. One would think even a tiny bit of help would have been in order.
Now, I am not ganging up on only AA flyers here as dearest Delta has their share of idiots who have no shame as well but what is flying coming to nowadays I ask you?
What do you think? Have you seen decorum totally fall over the past few years? – René
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what you are highligthing now shows the ugly Trumptard attitude. Meaning not afraid to behave or do worst in public because nobody is afraid of the consequences anymore. Ppl. are afraid to lose their face, their rights, their ego in public..but not going to prison or paying a fine or even being black listed for life.
But the question though, why are you having these atrocious attitudes mainly in the US right now. Somebody care to explain?
We’ve been shown that no matter what we want to do, the only rule is to just do it.
Nobody has any manners, or shame. Just me me me me me….
I’ll try to help you.
Why are people’s “feelings”, no matter how crazy or obnoxious, made paramount as justification for every act, no matter the rules, etiquette or legality.
Why does everyone from drugstore clerks to gate agents feel as though your “ attitude” is a criteria for deciding that they can speak to you and treat you in any egocentric fashion they choose?
AND, when you protest or object, when did employees decide that without the sanction of the company they could dictate policies of “ attitude”.
Our whole culture knows that, no matter how irrational
or subjective their whims may be, that if you push back they are “ victims”.
It’s the media focus on these people and the ruination of customer service by unreachable executives with millions in salary who tow the PC lies du jour that causes even very sound and sensible fliers like Rene to tolerate being treated like serfs, ‘lest they get thrown off a plane for asserting themselves. with flight attendents.
Watch the Key and Peele YouTubes based on passenger experiences.
[Removed political bits]
You are reading US-based bloggers, so that’s what you are exposed to. If you traveled in Europe, you would see the same behaviors. It doesn’t matter what country you’re in, guys miss the urinal. It doesn’t matter what country you’re in, half of the people don’t wash their hands after relieving themselves . . . including number two. For most individuals, the fact that their choices might have consequences affecting others doesn’t even enter their minds. Epimetheus (look that name up).
Trumptard attitude? The topic has nothing to do with Trump, he’s just always on Waynes mind.
Wayne, I’ve heard long TDS is more debilitating than long covid.
Thoughts and prayers.
paying rent there
When it comes to First Class, some people act like it comes with a sense of entitlement,. Honestly, that’s how some of them probably act on a day-to-day basis.
Karen or Kevin? Don’t be such a follower. When people use terms like that it shows you can’t think for yourselves but rely on others to teach you what to say,
@Fathiss – These are the commonly accepted terms for someone who acts in a way unkind to those around them. If you have another term that everyone would understand the meaning feel free to share so we can use it.
I disagree that the use of the name “Karen” is now commonly accepted to describe people who act unkindly to these around them. It picked up steam as an insult during the divisive months of BLM protests across the country, and has racist undertones as it is generally aimed at white middle class moms. My wife is a white, middle class mom named Karen, and she is just about the kindest person you would ever meet. And yes, it hurts her to see her name associated with such mindless hate.
I wonder how generally accepted it would be if the name was Abdul? Or Lashonda?
@Earl – I did not pick Xerox to be a photo copy or Google to be a search but they mean what they mean in modern vernacular. “Karen” according to Wikipedia is what it is regarding meaning and use.
I would not use the names you suggested
But repeating myself, if you have another term everyone would identify with, I will use it.
Tiresome to see that 1st class conversation has devolved into Trumptard/Karen/Kevin/Wikipaedia conversation, (all of which are far left wing to this John Birch Society patriot.)
Otherwise, I agree that all those examples are uncivilized and should be banished. I’ve had to deal with feet on the wall and personal belongings in my foot area (I’m six foot three and need my foot space,) and personal belongings and staff personal belongings in the overhead bin above my first class feet, etc.
I am a leisure traveler with no inside connection to the travel industry. I don’t know if these passenger names can be blacklisted or put on the no fly list or what. I’m not uber-rich to fly pj, and I appreciate old-fashioned etiquette. Given civil rights, I know it’s too much to ask for private country club rules of refined attire and genteel behavior. I don’t have an answer, and I’m open to new ideas.
You mean good etiquette like taking pictures of people without their permission on an airplane and posting them in an article on the internet?
@Keith – Thankfully in public you can be photographed and if someone does something shameful yes they should show up on the web.
I agree 100% and have a great collection of shots of people doing stupid rude things on planes. I post them to my personal page, and sometimes to passenger shaming, which is a facebook page everybody should enjoy!
Great shot of the guy in stirrups with his feet on the bulkhead, waiting for his gynecologist to arrive?
@Mike – I mean does he do that at home?
It does come with an entitlement— premium service!
That’s why we pay more or use miles.
It does come with an entitlement— premium service!
That’s why we pay more or use miles.
Recently on a first class American flight from LA to Philly I woke to a bare foot on my arm rest from the disgusting gentleman behind me. Then he got up to use the restroom and returned to his seat and pit his foot back up like it was his personal ottoman.
Wayne, you must, in some ways, love Mr. Trump. As we all know, the opposite of Love is not hate, it’s indifference. Since you can’t breathe without mentioning his name you clearly have a love/hate relationship with him. Personally, I don’t care if he lives or dies; nor do I care about most politicians. They are a necessary evil. So keep mentioning his name so that he will get re-elected and then you can be very happy because you’ll have something to complain about.
I remember when you had to get dressed up to fly in first class, but times they are a changing.
@ALL – Can we get back on track about the post not politics? Will dump all other such related posts from this point on in this thread.
Good plan Rene! I mean that seriously! They too are showing disrespect for you and others by trying to change the topic of the post … just like the people you’re mentioning as Kevin’s and Karen’s.
You’d think moving yourself and stuff would be a good idea just to avoid spills or other problems. I guess not. I suppose she would have screamed bloody murder if you had spilled her drinks.
I think you can state your opinion absolutely, but be fair to others as you wish them to be to you and not post a persons photo on the internet without their permission.
@Deborah – If you are in public one does not need to ask for permission. It is a constitutional right.
sadly all forms in any seats etiquette have been long gone. Stinky bare feet on the compartment wall, little willingness to move a computer on the isle seat and huge McDonalds carried in the seat back pouch, feet and other things extending into the space from fore and aft (I always push them back until it stops) and requests to move to a bulkhead seat )I was planning to work) “so that we can sit together.” NO. Sleeping while leaning on me.
Just my two cents, but I do not believe that a plane cabin of a commercial airliner is a public space. I suspect you took these pictures surreptitiously. However, if you walked down the aisle taking pictures of passengers exhibiting bad behavior and a flight attendant asked you to stop, you would have no right to continue. The picture of the bag in your space does not bother me, but the picture of the guy with his feet on the bulkhead does because he can be identified.
Also, your post is about etiquette, not what people are obligated to do or have a right to do, and I agree with your points. I know of no obligation for an aisle passenger to clear the way to make it easier for a window passenger to use the restroom, but it’s just good manners. However, some of us clearly feel that posting pictures of people exhibiting bad behavior (at least to the extent that a person can be identified) is a breach of etiquette that may be just as bad as an aisle passenger not clearing the way when needed, even if you have a right to do it.
I’m not trying to be confrontational. As a matter of fact, it would not surprise if the people that object to some of these pictures are in the minority.
I do think this would be a good topic for a thoughtful post and perhaps a poll, and hopefully there would be a lot of thoughtful and respectful comments.
Hi Dave!
I once posted a picture on FB about the disconnect in today’s society. I was having breakfast in my favorite local restaurant here in San Jose when I noticed a family of four eating at a table nearby. Both Mother and Father were buried in their cell phones and the two kids were lost in there ipads.
My Goodness did I get crucified! I realize in retrospect I should have blurred their faces but I was amazed at how a family could go out to breakfast and not talk to each other!
@Rick – I blur kids faces by choice also.
” if you walked down the aisle taking pictures of passengers exhibiting bad behavior and a flight attendant asked you to stop, you would have no right to continue.”
The flight attendants are allowed to tell anybody what to do on a flight, but it has nothing to do with rights. It is a rule, not a right. They can also tell you to be quiet, quit kicking the seat in front of you, or quit having sex under that blanket…
Having said that, FAs are at least as aggravated as Rene about this situation, and tend to post some shots of their own of the crazy things they see. I’ve been posting and shooting horrible people doing horrible things on planes for years, and I would be glad if somebody saw themselves and tried to do something about it. Like Rene said, it’s a public space, and if you don’t want to be shamed, don’t do shameful things on the plane.
The worst KLM Business Class flight I’ve had was this past December… I was in the furthest forward seat and hoped to sleep from Amsterdam back to NYC…The Ummm…gentleman (maybe a Kevin?) sleeping one row back had the worst gas. I’m not kidding, it was terrible and it went on for about 3-4 hours. It was the middle of the night, what do you do?
Been there, smelled that. It happened to me in row 2 of Delta ATL-Madrid overnight flight. Mr row1 did his thing The ENTIRE flight! Actually woke me up twice. I’ll take feet on the bulkhead anytime vs the silent killer.
Again folks – dumping anything political as off topic.
It hasn’t really changed. There are only more people flying now, and they have faster ways of sharing their frustration. Also, there has always been a cultural lack of awareness toward others. Call it American Exceptionalism or Western Entitlement, there will always be pee on the floor. And it doesn’t always come from men!
My two cents? I think there is a sense of entitlement these days that we didn’t see as much of in the past. I do believe there is a “hey-I-paid-good-money-for-this-ticket” mentality. And…it is not just in Economy…it does extend all the way to the front of the plane. But, to level-set, it is not everyone but the actions of a scant few that get our attention. Not sure we can ever fix that.
@BigTee: there is no such thing as a “John Birch Society Patriot” unless there is such a thing as a “Proud Boy Patriot” and wait, nope. No such thing.